2) Even if Eternal conscious punishment was a worse punishment it does not mean that that automatically makes it the final punishment. October 11, 2013 Cody Leave a comment. who will be conscious, 4.) Matthew 25:46 is the poster child verse for those who believe in eternal conscious torment in hell. From the historical perspective, there was (1) first invented the teaching about the immortal soul, and then (2) eternal … This creates a problem for the annihilationist view. That seemed like a fair question. See John MacArthur's related sermon Matthew 11:16-24 Treating Christ with Criticism and Indifference Hell, as a place of eternal punishment, is not biblical. Let me begin with some of the weaker, though common, arguments that are often given for ECT. Eternal punishment, the historic view of the church, holds that hell is a place of eternal, conscious, and final punishment, banishment, and death.” views concerning hell is eternal punishment, annihilationism, and universalism. A small degree of punishment times infinity is the same as a large degree of punishment times infinity. I recently listened to a debate between rethinkinghell.com contributor Chris Date and apologist Phil Fernandes (philfernandes.org). Is Hell Eternal Conscious Torment? Grace Chapel affirms that Scripture teaches the reality of a place of conscious , eternal torment away from the presence of God called variously, hell, eternal punishment, eternal fire, outer darkness, the place of weeping and gnashing of teeth, etc. In this post, I want to summarize the best arguments for eternal conscious torment (ECT)—the traditional view of hell where the wicked will experience never-ending punishment. The scriptural teaching of degrees of punishment is a solid argument for eternal, conscious torment, According to Christ, some sinners will receive greater torment than others. 2nd Sermon of the "Heaven and Hell" Series Originally Preached on January 22, 2017 Pastor Russell Roberts Calvary Baptist Church, Seymour TX. Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. Eternal conscious torment is immoral by nature; To accuse God of enacting eternal conscious torment would make God immoral. and suffering, 5.) If life eternal is a life that never ends, death eternal is a death that never comes back to life. Keep in mind the five elements needed to support the traditional view of hell: 1.) There is no explicit statement of eternal conscious punishment for condemned human beings in Scripture. The Scriptures make clear that even the most seemingly minor infractions of God’s commands are taken with inestimable seriousness. (1) Can you define “eternal punishment” for me in the context of Matt. Therefore, eternal conscious torment is not true, since God is not immoral. The Inconsistency of Arguments for Eternal Conscious Punishment. III. Hello, I've read in another thread that this community is split between two primary views on hell, one being eternal conscious everlasting punishment misery and suffering, and another view. To say that eternal conscious torment is immoral by nature is an opinion. 12 The Dark Side of Eternity: Hell as Eternal Conscious Punishment by Robert A. Peterson Doctrinal Discernment: Traditionalism holds that the wicked will suffer eternal conscious punishment in hell forever; annihilationism (or conditionalism) holds that the final punishment of the wicked is their extinction of being. This phrase, “eternal conscious punishment,” occurs in the longer statement that addresses the eternal destiny of believers and unbelievers. First, Augustine. “the punishment doesn’t fit the crime” The view of Hell as eternal conscious torment is not Biblical, but is imported from outside philosophies. Burk’s selection of texts is a far cry from being ‘the relevant texts of Scripture on hell’, but is rather 10 passages that may teach eternal conscious torment (or at least elements of it). This leaves one other option: everyone suffers the same amount of punishment in an eternal conscious Hell. This phrase, “eternal conscious punishment,” occurs in the longer statement that addresses the eternal destiny of believers and unbelievers. Scripture says that the punishment of sin is death. An eternity of punishment for sins committed in a finite lifetime seems unfair, i.e. for rebellious humans, 3.) Eternal punishment and eternal life are parallel to each other in this passage. The biblical eternal fire … lake of fire is fire operating at a higher vibratory rate. The traditional view that hell is eternal, conscious suffering is by far the most predominant view. The doctrine of eternal conscious punishment vs the alternative. Such a view believes that for the lost there is no eternal punishment and a person’s soul is ‘extinguished’. Eternal Punishment/Eternal Life. Furthermore, it is unwise to suppose that one or two passages from Revelation satisfactorily upholds the notion of the eternal conscious torment of unredeemed humanity, when many more verses simply state that death is the consequence and punishment for disobeying God and rejecting Jesus as Saviour (e.g., Rom. He defends eternal punishment against the claim that "it's unfair for a punishment to last longer than the sin". Physical plane fire offers many benefits: it purifies, it renders malleable, it warms. There are some Christian groups and many cults that deny the idea that hell, in the general sense, means eternal, conscious punishment. Second, sins of the damned can be eternal in that sinners continue to sin throughout eternity. Another thing, if the eternal conscious punishment of the lost is not the biblical teaching and is worthy of the earnest denunciation that Restorationists give it, then the fact that our Lord and the apostles did not clearly denounce such teaching ought to convince them of the truth of it. a place in the afterlife, 2.) In my previous post, I summarized some of the strongest biblical arguments in favor of terminal punishment. 5:12; 6:16b, 23; 7:5; Jas 1:15). His argument is this: Just as today, someone can commit a crime in one second and be jailed for life (isolated from the city), someone can also be judged by God in the same way (isolated eternally from the city of God) It is as real and as eternal as the place called Heaven. And “punishment” and “life” are two continuing states having to do with conscious individuals. This view is known as annihilationism. But Scripture says much more about the punishment of sin than these texts alone. So back to Hell. Rejecting Rob Bell’s view on hell, Southern Baptists affirmed the historical biblical teaching on hell as an “eternal conscious punishment” in a resolution that was passed on the last day of the denomination’s annual meeting. Some maintain that God's eternal punishment is annihilation or non-existence. The problem with this line of reasoning begins with the first premise. Hell is not eternal conscious torment because the Bible consistently states that the punishment for sin is to perish or to be destroyed or to experience death. John Stott admitted that eternal conscious punishment would be much more sensible to him if “perhaps (as has been argued) the impenitence of the lost also continues … Matthew 25:31-46. It does not say that the punishment of sin is torment. The punishment of hell is depicted as conscious and eternal. forever. Consciousness does not cease in the one case but go on in the other. As I mentioned in my previous post, I am working through two chapters of Zondervan’s Four Views on Hell: Eternal Conscious Torment (Denny Burk) and Terminal Punishment (John Stackhouse).See my previous post on Burk’s chapter.. John Stackhouse: Terminal Punishment Stackhouse articulates and defends the view often known as annihilationism or conditional immorality, … Hell most certainly exists within the biblical texts there is absolutely no denying that, the Bible mentions Hell. The reason … Others say it is temporal, and that eventually all will be saved out of hell. After all, a sin is a sin is a sin. Given that eternal conscious punishment is explicitly included in CMI’s statement of faith, it is appropriate to take a moment to consider these charges. They have to say that “eternal life” includes an ongoing conscious experience for the righteous, but “eternal punishment” is not an ongoing conscious experience for the wicked. So, in regards to eternal conscious torment, degrees of punishment are a mathematical impossibility. It’s the ONLY verse in the entire Bible where we find the word “eternal” beside the word “punishment”. It’s often said that the Bible is extremely clear on eternal conscious punishment–as though this is just read of the pages of Scripture and delivered as a whole doctrine to us. The eternal fire is the Purple Transmuting Flame. Matthew 25:46 says, “These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” Annihilationism is eternal death, but Jesus doesn’t say the unsaved will go to eternal death as opposed to eternal life. Words must be defined by Scripture not given assumed meanings by us. Eternal punishment is deserved and therefore just. The punishment of God’s wrath of being consciously thrown into the lake of fire is also seen in the gospel accounts. 25:46 without assuming it means “eternal conscious torment”? The first person to write about “eternal hell” was the Latin (West) North African Tertullian (160–220 A.D.), who is considered the Father of the Latin Church. Many Christians believe in a conscious eternal torture because eternal punishment in hell goes hand to hand with the belief in the immortality of the soul. However an increasing number of theologians and biblical scholars reject the traditional premise that the Bible teaches that those who reject God suffer eternally. When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. Debate. Pharisees weren't being warned of Eternal Conscious Torment. The Bible has a lot to say about the final end of both the redeemed and the lost. 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